Help with Slow Starter

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #345 on:** March 15, 2006, 02:27:10 PM »

Wood ?? Thats news to me . There is suppose to a pedal stop on the brake pedal about half way up though. Most are gone by now. Just don't stomp it hard to the floor when you bleed. Should be OK.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #346 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:39:57 PM »

Ok, I am still confused, what special VW hydraulic property makes me want to bleed the front brakes before the back brakes?, My somewhat long life on this planet Earth has proven that you start at the farthest wheel cylinder and work your way to the front closest. Not 2nd closest 1st closest, then 4th farthest then 3rd farthest. let me have it! Bring it on! SC

Zen · « **Reply #347 on:** March 15, 2006, 05:53:59 PM »

SC, Bugtech has wrenched on these critters for more years than you and I have been around . . . as strange as it may seem to someone who grew up in GM family, he is right. Bleed the front first. I haven't taken the time to take a master cylinder apart and really study it, but I have had one apart long enough to tell you that it ain't quite like a "normal" master cylinder. It's got one piston, but one end of it is spring loaded and kind'a "floats" on the other . . . I suppose that until you apply enough pressure to lock the front brakes, the rear circuit can't build up full pressure . . . or something like that. Maybe David can explain it and fully remove the cloud of confusion surrounding it's inner workings . . . or maybe this is one time we just have to trust the master and bleed the front first and don't ask too many questions. :lol:

Until I started pressure bleeding the brakes on my VWs, I NEVER got all the air out of them . . . but I was always bleeding the back first, then the front. If you pressure bleed them, it doesn't matter much which side you start with. :wink:

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #348 on:** March 15, 2006, 08:04:33 PM »

I don't have to explain . Zen has found out why and is correct. All this info came from VWoA in '68 via a shop bulletin that I have discussed on many a post here. Pay attention here, This ain't your Mama's Chevy. :lol:

« **Reply #349 on:** March 15, 2006, 09:01:12 PM »

ok, I'll have to comment here. I'm glad Smelly brought that up.
Just last week, me and my buddy put brakes on my ol 66 thats been in the weeds since 1987. New master cyl., all new lines, 4 new wheel cyl, and shoes. I did'nt know you were suppose to use Bug-techs, technique...
I did manage to get pretty good brakes on the car by doing it with the normal method, starting with the furthest away. and until I read this post I was satisfied that I have good brakes. Maybe I dont. seems that there is a little spongy feel about them. They will STOP the car in a hurry, but, they do not have that "secure, no worries" feeling.
I guess now, I'll go back and try it again using this method.

Yall better hope this works cause, I'm driving this 66 to BP8 and I wanna be able to stop when I get there.

I might get Smelly to help me fix my Stewart Warner gasoline heater while I'm there.

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #350 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:08:55 AM »

Boone, Bleeding the brakes starting with the front clys. only applies if you are using a dual stage master cly. Bleeding the old single stage M.C. You do start with the rear brakes. I bet your brakes will improve when the shoes wear in and when you re-adjust them. If you have had the drums "turned" and did not "radius" the shoes to fit the conture of the drum, they will feel spongy until the shoes "set". Nobody seems to do this anymore.

« **Reply #351 on:** March 16, 2006, 07:43:28 PM »

Thanks David, now I understand where you're coming from on the bleeding technique too. I'd say you're right on the shoes wearing in, I did adjust em up , but no I didnt radius them. I can see clearly now..... :wink:

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #352 on:** March 17, 2006, 08:50:42 AM »

Boone, Glad you understand. No rocket science here,but I think a lot of folks that are new to the old Beetle let the little "critter" freak them out. No doute they are different, but they are not complicated once you have the basics down. Compare the Beetle to today machines which now are control'd by "On Star" and God .
Its kind of like the trips to the gas station in your Bug back in the '50s where you would create absolute chaos if you ask the attendant to check your oil. It was kind'a fun though watching these Dudes fumble around pretending to know where everything was. Been there ,Done that myselve. After a few embarrassing encounters I slowly figured it out. Thats what the Newbies are doing today thank goodness. Somebody has to carry on after all us old Dinosaurs are gone.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #353 on:** March 18, 2006, 05:05:26 PM »

Bugtech, I have re-bled the Whole beetle. I can get a pedal off the floor with 3 pumps but if you wait 5 seconds, the next stroke goes to the floor. What is my next option? SC

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #354 on:** March 18, 2006, 07:18:56 PM »

Well, Not being there to ck things, I would say you have a less than perfect master cly. Do you have any free-play between the pedal push-rod and the master cly? Should have about 1/16 to 1/8 inch.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #355 on:** March 18, 2006, 08:25:03 PM »

Bugtech, lets say there is 5 inches of travel in the pedal.
Then pump the pedal 3 times
I can push 2 inches before I feel any resistance, the I get 1 inch of movement and the pedal is 1 to 2 inch inches above the floor or pedal stop. The car stops ok, you just have to pump the pedal 3 times to stick the brakes good

So I guess I have more that 1/16 of free play. Is this something you measure or adjust? I think the pedal is connected to a shaft that pushes the cyl pistons in. I know a clutch has free play, I'll go look at my book to see if there is a picture. SC

copperjewel · « **Reply #356 on:** March 18, 2006, 09:58:30 PM »

I see a soft back book on the horizon: $$$$

Now for the title :-k

"Bugtech 101" or

"Repair Your Bug The Bugtech Way" or

"The Adventures Of Smelly Cat and Bugtech"
A Step By Step Repair Manual For Your VW Beetle

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #357 on:** March 19, 2006, 08:02:47 AM »

Ok alright.. i got out the book. the master cyl does not look like the one I had in my campermobile. the camper had one big piston rod with 2or 3 plungers on it and it was a pain in the arse to install new plungers to. I had to reuse on old plunger, cause I broke the new plunger trying to get it on the piston. Its a good thing that camper is a shower now. Anyway, I see what freeplay is and I'll adjust the nut if it is loose or or tight, or missing. SC

Zen · « **Reply #358 on:** March 19, 2006, 10:39:19 AM »

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

I had to reuse on old plunger, cause I broke the new plunger trying to get it on the piston. Its a good thing that camper is a shower now.

:lol: :lol: :lol: SC . . . Believe it or not, the brakes on the shower bus STILL work!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Zen · « **Reply #359 on:** March 19, 2006, 10:48:33 AM »

Another thing to check is your brake shoe adjustment. If the shoes are too far from the drums, you'll have to pump 'em out before they make contact. Make sure your e-brake cables don't have any tension on them before you adjust the rear shoes out. Most folks who have never worked on an old Volkswagen tend to adjust the shoes way too loose. Remember what Bugtech said . . . this ain't your momma's Chevy. :wink:

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