Help with Slow Starter

Zen · « **Reply #150 on:** June 25, 2005, 02:11:09 PM »

When you install a new belt you need ALL of the shims in between the pulley halves. ALL = 8 shims. If the belt is loose, move one at a time to the outside of the pulley until you get the belt tight enough. The total number of shims should always be 8. I should be able to round up 6 extras you can have. If the belt is loose, the fan will stall at a fairly low RPM. The faster the engine is turning, the more heat it creates. If the fan isn't keeping up, it can't cool itself sufficently. These engines are AIR cooled. If you don't keep the AIR moving across them, they are NOT cooled. If you mix gas and air, compress it and set it on fire and don't get rid of the heat bad things (i.e. - expesive things) will happen . . . the oil breaks down and quits lubricating fast moving metal parts . . . exhaust valves that run red hot under normal coditions get REALLY RED hot and start stretching and breaking . . . the magzium the block is made out of even starts to shrink and the case halves pull apart internaly, which drops the oil pressure to near nothing . . . Something is going to gauled and lock down, or something is going to break. So, don't run the engine with the belt loose unless you have the time and money to spend on a new engine.

You can see if the generator itself is good by seeing if it will run as a motor. If you unhook the wires from the two terminals and put +12V to one and ground the other it should take off spinning. I think you hook the positive wire to the D+ terminal and ground DF . . . but don't do this until I've verified that's correct. I don't know if it will damage it or just cause it run backwards if you hook it up backwards.

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #151 on:** June 25, 2005, 05:32:06 PM »

Zen,
I'm not sure what fan stall is . does that mean the fan stops? the generator and the belt appear to always be turning with the belt flopping around the pulley. I just cant tell how much it is slipping,

After reading a Bugtech post he said to block off the holes that feed air to the exhaust pipes. Since I dont seem to have the pipes to connect the fan shroud holes to the exhaust pipes, I stuffed some old socks in there so I probaly boosted my air flow to the cylinders that may offset the loss of the slipping belt some.
I've never ran the engine more than a few minutes anyway so I probally have not ruined it yet, but ill keep trying
SC

71SuperBee · « **Reply #152 on:** June 25, 2005, 05:36:49 PM »

Hey Smelly,

The make peices of metal that fit right into the fan shroud that will fit tight and not allow the air to blow it out into the belt or worse into the fan itself. They are cheap like 3 bucks I think for 2. When you start driving it you may want to consider this.. And what I herd from some where that even if you aren't using the heater boxes it is a good ideal to run the pipe to them and blow some air into them as well. This may or may not help to keep the valves a little cooler not much but it may help some. And on the metal peices I know I have one but if I have two I will give them to ya pal. VW RULES....

Aaron

vwherb · « **Reply #153 on:** June 25, 2005, 06:36:21 PM »

Please get rid of the socks. If one comes loose and gets behind and into the fan then you sure 'nuf have a problem. Your muffler bearing and kanuter valve will both explode. :lol: :lol:

Seriously, get rid of the socks. TN Herbie can tell you about a rag floating around in the engine compartment. :oops:

71SuperBee · « **Reply #154 on:** June 25, 2005, 06:57:47 PM »

Hey Herb,

It wasn't the kanuter or whatever that went wrong it was the exhuast bearing rubbing the knob to the thinggy jigger to the do hickey.. LOL

Aaron

Zen · « **Reply #155 on:** June 25, 2005, 10:21:29 PM »

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

Zen,
I'm not sure what fan stall is . does that mean the fan stops? the generator and the belt appear to always be turning with the belt flopping around the pulley. I just cant tell how much it is slipping . . .

OK, maybe "stall" wasn't the word I was looking for. It doesn't stop, it just reaches a maximum speed and won't turn any faster, no matter how fast the engine is turning. The faster the engine turns, the faster the belt moves and the faster the fan turns . . . up to the point. It takes more power to turn the fan faster. When the power needed to turn the fan faster reaches the point where the belt doesn't have enough "traction" on the pulley to supply the power, the fan will keep running at about the speed where it broke traction . . . of course, the belt will start to wear and get hot and stretch, so it gets more slack and the fan slows down even more. If you turn enough RPMs, this will happen to some degree with a properly tensioned stock belt. If the belt is slack, it'll happen at a fairly low speed. If you haven't run the engine for more than two or three minutes at a time and since it wasn't pushing the car down the road, you probably haven't hurt anything . . . yet. But don't push it. I'm going to the Heart of Dixie show tomorrow, but I'll be home tomorrow evening. I'll find you some shims . . . and even give you a good belt if you need one.

And like everyone else said, loose the socks. I've lost a good engine to something as small as a paper towel in the fan. Until you get all the fresh air heater hoses hooked up correctly, find a can or plastic bottle that's slightly bigger in diameter than the pipe. Cut it off about 3 or 4 inches from the bottom. Cut 3 or 4 slits down the sides of the bottom, slide it over the pipe and secure it good and tight with a hose clamp. That problaby won't really do any better job of stopping the air flow than the socks, but if it does come apart and get loose in the engine compartment, it'll make a racket. The socks will probably just get blown out and sucked into the fan. You might not figure out that it happened until it's too late.

How's the fuel line coming along?

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #156 on:** June 26, 2005, 11:30:38 AM »

Well after reading all the post about blocking off this and that, Has it occured to anybody just to put the damn fresh air pipes on ?
Aaron , I thought you had all the stuff to put the pipes on. Whats the problem ? It shouldn`t take more than 10mins for crying out loud :roll:

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #157 on:** June 26, 2005, 03:08:53 PM »

Bugtech, all the heater stuff is rusty and broke that goes to the back seat so I figure why hook the hoses? I think I can use the empty air tubes as a storage compartment for my South American exotic herb import / export bizness

Anyway, socks not a problem anymore, they disapeared. This Bug is like a clothes dryer . it eats socks. Kidding.

Zen, that fuel line is giving me finger arthritis threading the weed wacker line in and out. I thought I hated Fiber glass work more than anything but this fuel line is a becoming a runner up Did I say this yet, I hate cleaning out this fuel line. well I do. Its a fact. Yep sure do. hate it. i plan to bottle the gunk thats in there as the next super glue. or sell it to wusses that want to pretend they do repair work. They can smear it on there hands and goto work and brag about how they work on thier own cars and can't get thier fingers clean.

Is there a trick to getting the fan belt tight and not rubbing the fan shroud? Does the generate sit right on the pedastle or do you shim it to make it level with the main pulley. I got some boat washers that fit the pully and with none between the 2 halves. the belt is still loossie goosey
SC

Zen · « **Reply #158 on:** June 26, 2005, 05:53:50 PM »

Quote from: "Ret.Bugtech"

Well after reading all the post about blocking off this and that, Has it occurred to anybody just to put the damn fresh air pipes on?

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

Bugtech, all the heater stuff is rusty and broke that goes to the back seat so I figure why hook the hoses?

It doesn't matter if the heater boxes are hooked to the body or not. If the heater boxes are intact, hook up the hoses. The flap at the end of the heater box will block off the air flow. That way you won't get socks sucked into your fan or have cans bouncing around in the engine compartment . . . and it'll keep Ret.Bugtech from coming to the "LaFayette Triangle" and knocking us in the head with spare parts from a Dasher . . . :lol:

Disclaimer - :whistle:

Quote from: "Zen"

Until you get all the fresh air heater hoses hooked up correctly . . .

My advice is not to be taken as permanent or correct solution to any problem. But if you find yourself in a time warp, sucked into a black hole, lost in the "LaFayette Triangle," etc. on a Sunday evening after all the parts stores have closed and you need to get to work on Monday morning it "may" help. Use it at your own risk. No animals were harmed in testing these procedures.

OK, I did set a couple of squirrels on fire once, but they are plentiful so they don't count . . . Do they? :roll:

71SuperBee · « **Reply #159 on:** June 26, 2005, 11:43:19 PM »

Bugtech,

I have all my stuff on. I was going to give him some block off in CASE he wanted them.. I don't have any problems. Car runs like a dream..

aaron

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #160 on:** June 27, 2005, 09:33:10 AM »

Sorry Aaron, I misread somthing in the post. I thought it was you that was having the problem .I thought we had solved your "deal". Im happy that you are running fine and the job is going well.
Now if we can just get those 2 little wires connected in "Smelly Cats " nootle, the "Triangle" will be a safer place,but I won`t hold my breath :lol: :lol:

Smelly_Cat · « **Reply #161 on:** June 27, 2005, 09:39:43 PM »

Hey Jason, were is Cohutta GA? is it North of Dalton some where..south?? I'd like to see you superbeetle some time and I really would like to see what a SuperBeetle trunk looks like and maybe trace out the cardboard piece that hides the dash wires, My dash wires are all exposed. The little vents on the hood appear to be able to pour copious amounts of rain water into the electricals should I ever get the Bug runnin and its raining. or maybe the extra wind on the wires will keep them cool and prevent fires.

Whats a Fan Shroud supposed to do if you shake it with the Generator bolt loose. Mine lifts up like 3 inches on each side and this may have something to do with how hard it is to adjust the fanbelt tight and so the fan does not rub and sound like a shovel on a sidewalk.. I love this peoples car. SC

Zen · « **Reply #162 on:** June 27, 2005, 10:31:47 PM »

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

Hey Jason, were is Cohutta GA? is it North of Dalton some where..south??

Aaron is Cohutta . . . Jason is in LaFayette (near Naomi school)

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

I'd like to see you superbeetle some time and I really would like to see what a SuperBeetle trunk looks like and maybe trace out the cardboard piece that hides the dash wires, My dash wires are all exposed.

I think Herb, Kyle and myself have 2 new plastic wire covers (originals were some type of fiberboard) stored in our parts trailer . . . I'll get with them and see how much we can let them go for if you are interested.

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

The little vents on the hood appear to be able to pour copious amounts of rain water into the electricals should I ever get the Bug runnin and its raining. or maybe the extra wind on the wires will keep them cool and prevent fires.

Is your fresh air box missing? There should be a plastic "contraption" (for lack of a better word) under the hood vents that separate water, air, leaves, bugs, etc. and send nice clean air into the car, the water out a drain under the gas tank and it collects all the rest of the stuff for a while . . . when it gets full, it sends water in the car, air into the gas tank, bugs into the engine, leaves into the fan . . . It's rare to find a fresh air box intact, hooked up correctly and working properly. If everything is there and it's hooked up, see if you can clean the drain out. If it's gone, find a creative way to seal off the vents. Duct tape is not very creative and it's ugly . . . but it'll slow the water down a little bit . . . for a little while anyway.

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

Whats a Fan Shroud supposed to do if you shake it with the Generator bolt loose. Mine lifts up like 3 inches on each side and this may have something to do with how hard it is to adjust the fanbelt tight and so the fan does not rub and sound like a shovel on a sidewalk..

The shroud should be fastened into the tin on each side with a small bolt. If it's a "dog-house" style oil cooler, it should also have a small bolt in the back behind and below the oil cooler. If it's rocking from side to side and raising up three inches, it's a pretty safe bet the side bolts are missing. It is sometimes a little tricky to get the shroud to sit down inside the head tin like it should. If it's sitting all the way down in the tin and you have the side bolts tightened, it's should move around much with the generator loose. When it strap the generator to the tin, it should make it pretty secure. With everything bolted in place, you shoud be able to spin the generator and not hear ANY rubbing. If something is rubbing, something is either out of place or bent.

Quote from: "Smelly_Cat"

I love this peoples car. SC

:thumbs-up:

71SuperBee · « **Reply #163 on:** June 28, 2005, 08:51:24 AM »

Hey SC,

If you are talking about wanting to see my super then come on down. I can give ya directions. I drive a truck OTR and get home a couple times a week and every weekend. We can get together then. Also I would love to see your super up close myself.. Take care everyone. And zen the wire cover put me down for one.. And Jason I still want that hood ok? PLease don't sell it..

Aaron

Ret.Bugtech · « **Reply #164 on:** June 28, 2005, 09:17:30 AM »

Zen, What do you want to bet "Smelly'" doesn`t even have a Gen.strap left ? Oh well, there is always the Ole Maytag out back.
Zen , Don`t be offering original parts to "Smelly". It would be more than he could handle if it cost over 19 cents plus tax besides if the part didn`t say "Coldwell Banker or Crye-Leike or Kenmore" it wouldn`t seem right. :lol: :lol:

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Topic: Help with Slow Starter (Read 224450 times)

Zen

Help with Slow Starter

Smelly_Cat

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71SuperBee

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vwherb

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71SuperBee

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Zen

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Ret.Bugtech

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Smelly_Cat

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Zen

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71SuperBee

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Ret.Bugtech

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Smelly_Cat

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Zen

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71SuperBee

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Ret.Bugtech

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