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Topic: 1972 carburetor  (Read 11969 times)

Offline RobertoRios

  • Hixson, Tn
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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2011, 10:23:10 AM »
Thank you so very much this is valuable information.

I took my dist. out to check that everything works ok (which it seems to be), now that I am puting it back in the engine....I twiggle the distri. head until it drops down..it does dropped down ok. here is my question:

does te distrb. head has to be pointing to cylin 1, when it drops down AND the poly is in TDC?...beacuse is not working that way......when the poly is in TDC..the distriburator head drops down pointing to cylin. 2 (front right side) or 3 (back left side)......depending on the direction that the distriburator has dropped down.

There is no way dist. head can point to cylin. 1 and be at TDC at the same time.

IF we fix the problem above....should i set the STATIC timing on TDC ("0" mark) or 5 or 7.5?


I do not have a timing light...i can get a test light for static timing (is it the same?) can the bug run on the initial static timing until i can take it to a mechanic for strobe timing?

Thanks so very much for your help

Offline Zen

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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2011, 11:12:46 AM »
The distributor should only be able to drop into the slot of the distributor drive shaft at one point.

#1 piston will be at TDC when the 0 degree mark is lined up with the split in the case . . . BUT, so will #3.  One will be at TDC on the compression stroke and the other will be at TDC on the exhaust stroke.  You #1 at TDC of the compression stroke.  At that point, the rotor should be pointed towards #1.  If it's dropping in with the rotor pointing at #3, you may just have it on the wrong stroke.  If that's the case, turn the motor over one revolution.

Ret.Bugtech will be throwing rocks at me in second, but you should be ok if you set the static timing and go straight to a mechanic with a timing light with an advance dial.  Set the dial at 32 degrees, rev it up to full advance and lock the distrubutor down with the TDC mark hitting the split in the case.  I've been without a timing light before and done this with no problem, but just as disclaimer . . . if you have too much total spark advance (over 32 degrees) and you drive too fast, too far, our keep it under a heavy load for very long the result will look like you took a cutting torch and burned holes in the tops of your pistons.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2011, 12:49:49 PM »
Wait a min.  Do you know where #1 cyl is ?   As you are looking in at the engine #1 cyl is on your right and forward( toward the front of the car).    #2 cyl is on your right and back toward you.   #3 cyl is on your left forward ( toward the front of car)   #4 cyl is on your left and back toward you. You may not have the lugs on the dist. locked in on the drive in the engine. Some times the lugs will barely catch the drive gear on the wrong side making you think its down all the way. Set the engine on TDC ( 0), loosen and pull the dist. up a little bit until you can turn the rotor by hand. Turn the rotor while pushing the dist. back down until you feel the lugs set down in the drive gear all the way. The rotor should be pointing either to #1 or #3 cyl.  I belive you told me that the engine was running but not well.  If the engine was that badly out of time all you would hear is a lot of backfiring and will not run. 
    Leave the engine on TDC and rotate the dist. body until the little notch on the edge of the dist .(Where the cap sits) The rotor should end up right on top of the notch. and pointing toward #1 cyl.   If the rotor ends up pointing toward the left of the engine you may have the engine 180 degrees off. Turn the engine 360 degrees back to TDC( 1 complete rev.)  and see if the rotor is now pointing toward #1 cyl or close.
     All this also is assuming that if the engine was rebuilt  the dist. drive gear (in case) was in installed  correctly .

Offline RobertoRios

  • Hixson, Tn
  • Joined: Nov 2010
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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2011, 10:26:44 AM »
ok..i got some pictures to describe better what is going on with the bug
all this pictures were taken like u were standing right behind the car


1. this is how the distributor sits on the engine (pointing to #2)
3. all the way in

on full revlution it will point to opposite site cyl. # 3

4. inside the whole were dist.sits...at point DTC point 0
5. my dist. --> if you visually align the the little foot of my dist into the whole in the engine were it sits...you will see it will point to 2 or 3..oposites


may be i am doing something wrong..very possible i am doing something wrong  ??? any ideas of how can i set poly at TDC and have dist point to cyl.#1


Offline Zen

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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2011, 10:51:58 AM »
If the engine is at top dead center in the next to the last picture, the distributor drive shaft is installed in the wrong position.  This is a common mistake made by many novice engine builders.  It's not the end of the world . . . you can adjust the distrubtor body and plug wires to compensate, but it makes trying to explain how to set up a nightmare.

There is a tool made to pull the drive shaft out so you can put it back in the correct position, but there are two little shims that go under the drive shaft that could fall into the crankcase . . . The best thing to do is leave it alone until you get ready to completely overhaul the engine and put it in the correct position then.  Until then, compensate.  Whichever post on the distributor cap the rotor is pointing to, hook up plug wire #1 and adjust the other wires accordingly.  It won't be "right" . . . but if you have it sending the spark to the right cylinder at the right time, the engine doesn't really care . . .

Offline Zen

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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2011, 11:09:29 AM »
Here are some old dealership mechanic training filmstrips that explain ignition systems.  And don't worry about the Dwell Meter it shows.  You can set and/or check the dwell angle by correcty setting the point gap with a feeler gauge.  If you go to your local parts store and try to buy a dwell meter today they might look at you like you have two heads.  Back in the days when all cars had breaker points, everybody that worked on their own car had a dwell meter.  Today, they've kind'a gone the way of the Dodo bird.  They are handy diagnostic tools, but you need to invest in good timing light with an advance dial WAY before you worry about a dwell meter.

http://www.youtube.com/volksfolks#p/u/26/xm4OmiVH2J0

http://www.youtube.com/volksfolks#p/u/25/cIrA4iWkhbE

http://www.youtube.com/volksfolks#p/u/24/BbX-oC1WSbs

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2011, 01:40:50 PM »
What was the last sentence I said on my post about the dist. drive gear ?????????? Go get some help. Don't even think about trying to change the gear yourselve.

Offline RobertoRios

  • Hixson, Tn
  • Joined: Nov 2010
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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2011, 01:47:14 PM »
i knew i was not crazy! this bug is really testing my patience  :-\

in my case the distriburator is pointing to cylinder #2 when pulley is in TDC.
that will make my cylinder 2 --> cylinder 1,

so the spark cable that goes from the dist to cyl 1, should go now to cyl 2...correct?

and i should adjust the dist. body (timing) with a test light when:

1. pulley is at TDC
2. head of dist. pointing to cyl #2
3. spark cable that used to go to cyl 1 now is going to cyl 2
4. all the other spark cables move one spot to the left accordingly

I am not sure about my fourth point  ??? ???

what is my firing order now..bugme video says normally 1423 clockwise and 1234 couterclockwise..is this still true with my bug?

phisically cyl.#1 still right and forward in the engine, BUT with my new seting I am sending the first spark from dist. to cyl.#2.....so the car will always fire on #2 (phisically)   ---- is this statement right???

or maybe my engine was not well rebuilt and the car does fire on the mark of cyl.#2 but which phisically is really #1.


ayayayyayay :-\ :-\ :-\

Offline Zen

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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2011, 02:07:01 PM »
When #1 is on TDC on the compression stroke, you have to send the spark to #1 (standing at the back of the car looking forward, #1 is on the right side and towards the front of the car).  If you are unsure, look on the head tin, the numbers are stamped in.  #1 will ALWAYS be #1, #2 will always be #2, etc. and firing order will ALWAYS be 1-4-3-2 (or 1-2-3-4 if you turn the engine backward . . . that's usefull for valve adjustments, but that is a future lesson).

The problem is, when you put the distributor in the "correct" orentation according to specs, the rotor isn't pointed at the #1 terminal . . . so you compensate.  If it's pointed to what's supposed to be #2 terminal, put the #1 plug wire on that terminal and move the other wires around the cap in order.  1-4-3-2 around the cap in the direction it rotates.  Now adjust your distributor body to get the static timing right.

Like Ret.Bugtech said . . . you need some help.  It's hard enough to try to explain when everything is as it should be.  This isn't as big a deal as it may seem right now . . . but until you've had a little experiance with it and get a good grasp on exactly what the problem is, it'll make you pull you hair out.  Hopefully we can get someone to swing by your place and give you a couple of pointers . . . it's much easier in person.

Offline RobertoRios

  • Hixson, Tn
  • Joined: Nov 2010
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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2011, 10:46:24 AM »
ok guys..

i did move the spark cable from cylin.1 to clyn. 2 and mover all off them accordingly 1432....I set the timimng at TDC (when i did this wth the testing light the light never came on, actually as i was turning the dist. waiting for the light to come on i heard a click in the coil, but the testing light never came on, so i just adjusted it with the click from the coil....is that normal., the click??)

anyways......recheck cables, recheck "click", i loosened the idle screw (in carb, upper left side of gas reservoir), just enought to not be tide.

The car startes...not backfiring....idleing....I never heard such a sweet sound sound on this beetle since i got it  :D :D :D.......it only backfire twice on two different ocassions, but not as loud as it was before....I guess it needs to be on its proper timing.

1. what should i tell the mechanic where to the set the timing on? i know i need to know the rpm for ideling and the degree on the pulley for the setting, but in my case where things are out of normal place....where should the timing be set? can any mechanic with a strobe light be able to do the job?
1972 super beetle

2. now I started with the brakes...normally i have to push the pedal more than half way for the car to start stopping..and then i have to push very hard for the car to come to a complete stop...this doesn't seem right to me. the adjusters in the back of the drum should fix this problem? the mechanic install a new master cylinder, flood the brakes, but he did not know where half of the brakes went. (whom by the way i will not trust my bug again  >:( >:( > )


Thanks guys...u really made my saturday, even my wife was happy that the "thing" was sounding good.  ;D

Offline Zen

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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2011, 11:11:05 AM »
On setting the timing . . . under full advance, set it at 32 Degrees before top dead center and lock it down.  It sounds like you have it close.  Just be sure to tell the mechanic that the distributor dirve shaft is installed wrong and you have compensated for it or they might not hook their timing light to the #1 plug wire.  Any mechanic with a timing light with an advance knob AND is familiar with air cooled VWs should be able to set it for you.

Or, you can buy a timing light with an advance knob and set it yourself.  I think Sears sells a Craftsman timing light with the advance knob for around 70 bucks.  You can probably get one at Harbor Freight for about half that . . . but the Craftsman is probably more than twice as reliable.   8)

On the brakes, run the adjusters out evenly on both sides until it locks the wheel down tight, then back them off just enough to free the wheel up.

Offline Ret.Bugtech

Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2011, 11:31:52 AM »
You don't tell your "Lawnmower/Jeep  mechanic" anything. You take it to a good pro. VW Man. You can then tell him about the Dist drive gear. He should know what to do.You could ask him about the brakes. I think I know whats wrong with your brakes but it would take all day to post and answer and would depend what else you did or didn't do to the brakes and you would end being very confused . ???  DO NOT let anybody work on you car except a VW Man >>>>>>>>>

Offline Zen

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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2011, 12:14:40 PM »
DO NOT let anybody work on you car except a VW Man >>>>>>>>>

AMEN!   8)

Offline RobertoRios

  • Hixson, Tn
  • Joined: Nov 2010
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Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2011, 12:18:12 PM »
is the bug driveable? --> i want to feel it on the road + i have to take it to the mechanic ;D 9 (of course after i try to fix the brakes) should i use regular gas or it should be unleaded? if i take it to a mechanic. is there something they can do (mark the poley) so i can static timing it from then and so on..or it should always go back to a mechanic for timing until i get a a proper tool?

what r good places here in chatt....vw mechanics? i will like to compare prices, my funds are low  :-\

thanks

Offline RobertoRios

  • Hixson, Tn
  • Joined: Nov 2010
  • Posts: 20

Re: 1972 carburetor

« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2011, 02:43:29 PM »
hi guys...i just wanted to make sure that i can drive my bug, even when the timing is not totally perfect...(static timing )...i think i will take it to rick on hwy 58 for the proper timing

would it damage my engine to drive it to rick or to tested around myblock?

Thanks again for all your help
hopefully i can met you all at bugalooza (my wife, my dad and I are going)

Roberto

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